You can't meet every need

MELODY:
Remember when you were cooking dinner and the baby started to cry, the toddler's also just asked you a question and your phone has started ringing? In today's episode of Mum to Mum with Doctor Tash, we're talking about something that feels both relieving and confronting: You cannot meet every need and that's okay.

Before we begin, a quick note that this podcast is for general parenting education and it's not a substitute for personalised medical advice. If you have concerns about your child, please make sure to speak with your doctor.

Welcome back Doctor Tash.

DOCTOR TASH:
Good morning Melody. So nice to see you again.

MELODY:
It is amazing to see you again. So you wrote an article for Mums At The Table website about something every mum with multiples should especially read, that's what I think, but the truth is though I only have one child but what you wrote still lifted a weight off my shoulders. I think I speak for most parents when I say we feel guilty when our child is upset and we can't meet that need straight away but you're saying no, it's okay, we don't actually have to and it won't damage them.

DOCTOR TASH:
Yeah. I think it's a feeling that many parents will relate to. We want to be emotionally safe for our children and somewhere along the way many of us internalise this belief that responding immediately is what protects them. The thing is though, secure attachment is built on consistent, emotional responses over time not an immediate response in every single moment.

Now I do think it's important to say that this is not about ignoring or dismissing a child's needs. I am not suggesting to leave a child to scream and cry alone wondering whether or not you can hear them. What I'm talking about is the reality of being a connected parent while still functioning in real life. We know that there are moments in life where we're faced with competing needs and let's be real, it is simply not possible to meet them all immediately. One person can only be in one place at one time.

MELODY:
Yes and so from what I can gather from what you're saying here, as well as what you wrote in the article right, you're trying to establish some kind of difference. So it's about acknowledging the need but then you don't have to immediately meet it and there is a difference there. I think it's a bit subtle to me . . . even.

DOCTOR TASH:
Yup.

MELODY:
Can you help me out with this?

DOCTOR TASH:
Absolutely, yes. That distinction is really important because as we just said, real life there are gonna be moments we just can't meet every need and so we have to be able to triage competing priorities.

I want you to imagine something with me for a moment. I want you to imagine that you are 5 years old, you trip and you fall over, you scrape your knee and it really hurts. You're bleeding, you start to cry and you call out for your mum. She's across the room in your baby brother's nappy change. She's stressed, she's stuck where she is and she doesn't respond. She doesn't look at you, she doesn't say anything, you're just left there crying. How does that feel?

MELODY:
You don't love me!

DOCTOR TASH:
It's hard. Now I want you to imagine the exact same situation again. You fall, you cry out, you've still got a cut on your knee, you're still bleeding, you still cry out to mum and she's still stuck in the middle of that nappy change and she still can't move but this time she looks up at you and she says, "Ooh, ow, that really hurt didn't it? Mummy's here, darling. I'll be there in a second." How does that feel?

MELODY:
Yeah I can feel like that can probably be a bit more comforting.

DOCTOR TASH:
In neither scenario did the mother drop what she was doing and run to the child? The child's need was still unmet in that moment in both situations but there was a really important difference between the two because in the second scenario the child was seen and that's the distinction I'm trying to make. A need can be acknowledged without being immediately met and when a child feels seen and validated, they remain emotionally connected to you even if they have to wait.

MELODY:
But yeah, I think that, I guess the important thing to point out as well is that it's not, you don't meet it immediately but you actually will meet it eventually.

DOCTOR TASH:
Absolutely, yup. Absolutely, very important. You do come back and meet the need. It's not about I never meet this need it's right now I physically can't get there but I can still acknowledge your need before I get there, does that make sense? So you can't meet every need immediately, though you should come back and meet the need when you're able to. But you can acknowledge every need as you see it.

MELODY:
Yup, yeah. Because sometimes it is also hard because yeah, I can imagine if my child's fallen over right, the one thing I want to do is just drop everything and run to him and help him but yeah sometimes you just can't do it. I've got some other examples here and I'm just, because like, you know, I'm just trying to figure how this is gonna work in some real scenarios right?

So let's say for example, we've got home from, so all of us have just got home from work and school, I'm trying to unpack right, like you know when you come back you're trying to organise everything and then you're trying to start prepping dinner but my son is going, "Can we play soccer for a little bit outside? I've been at school all day I just wanna play with you."

DOCTOR TASH:
Okay so this one's interesting because I would actually say that the majority of time playing soccer isn't actually the need in this example usually the need is actually a bid for connection and we can actually still meet that need without playing the soccer. Now, whenever I see a bid for connection like this, it's worth pausing for a moment and reflecting on, you know, have we made time for quality time with our child recently because if we haven't, sometimes despite all the competing priorities the connection might be the most important priority and there might be a couple of minutes that we can play soccer cause it's okay sometimes for the you know, dinner to be a little bit late or the house to be a little bit messy but let's imagine today dinner really cannot wait. There's a meeting later, there is genuinely not enough time to play soccer right now. In that situation I might say something like, "Oh, I would have loved to play soccer with you. I really can't right now because I have to get started on dinner but I'd love to still spend time with you. Would you like to join me while I cook? You can tell me about your day and maybe we can find some time in the next couple of days to play soccer." So you're still seeing the need and you're actually offering an alternate opportunity for the connection within the capacity that you have at that time.

MELODY:
That's an interesting one because yeah, so that was a real-world scenario right, actually happens to me and I do see it as a bid for connection. I know it's like, oh he hasn't you know, he hasn't seen me all day, he wants to just have some time with me and for me it's just like, oh it means that I have to connect with him but I like the fact that you were saying, well offer an alternative way to connect. It's not the soccer but it's the well, you could have a different way to connect as well.

DOCTOR TASH:
Yeah I mean my son sometimes loves cooking with me because we connect over it so when the bid is connection, if you really can't meet the need in the way they've asked you to you can offer a different way.

MELODY:
So what about this and yeah, I think you've kind of mentioned it a little bit with the fact that you know, you've fallen over but this is slightly different in the sense that you know, you've got a baby crying and you have a toddler at the same time going, "Help me with this. I need help with this certain activity."

DOCTOR TASH:
Gee, I know the situation all too well at the moment. Let's use a familiar current scenario for me.
So we're all in the lounge room together. I'm helping my toddler with some complex Lego construction and the baby's playing nearby or doing some tummy time nearby on the floor and then the baby starts to cry.

Now I wanna pause for a moment and acknowledge that for many parents instinctively, we wanna drop everything and run straight to the baby but that can actually mean that the toddler suddenly and abruptly can lose that moment of connection without warning and at this moment both children actually have a need. Given the baby was happily playing a moment ago, let's assume that this is a tired, grizzle-type cry rather than that distress, I-need-you-now cry and in that setting, I would acknowledge my baby but I would not drop everything to meet her need immediately.

So I might say something like, "Oh baby, are you getting tired? I'm here darling, I hear you. I just need to help your brother connect this piece we're working on and then I'm gonna take you to your bed," and then I'll turn to my toddler and say something like, "Okay, let's connect this piece we're working on and then I'm gonna take baby to her bed and we can finish the rest once she's gone to sleep." Both children are being acknowledged and both children are also being told what comes next.

Now let's be real. My baby doesn't turn around to me and say, "Oh thanks mum. Okay, I'll wait." No, she will continue to grizzle or fuss while I wrap up what I'm doing with the toddler but she isn't being ignored and importantly, I keep talking to her while I'm helping the toddler. "Oh I know baby, it's hard to wait. You're tired. Mummy's coming. I'll take you to your bed in just a second."

Now, it is a short duration of time. I'm not leaving the baby to do this for 10 minutes, 15 minutes. It's just you know, I'm actively in the middle of something with my toddler. It's recognising I'm not gonna give up and show him this abrupt removal just to meet the baby's need when the need is not desperate.

If this was a desperate cry, different scenario. If that baby is screaming bloody murder go to the baby, please go to the baby. It is an assessment as to where, whose need is really greater or if both needs are sort of equal then do you have to drop that in that moment to immediately do it.

Anyway, I've sort of distracted but so once the piece is connected and it's time to meet my baby's need. Now the toddler needs to be held in acknowledgement. "I know you really wanna finish the Lego together. I know it's hard. I understand. I wanna do it as well but baby really needs Mummy's help to get to bed first and then we can come back and do it together," and so in that example alone the direction of that acknowledgement of which child is being held in acknowledgement which child's need is being met is actually shifting.

At first I'm holding baby in acknowledgement while meeting the toddler's need but then once the toddler's immediate need has been met I'm actually meeting the baby's need and having to hold my toddler in acknowledgement because he's disappointed with the change and that's the reality cause in family life this happens all the time. Needs move back and forth and we can't meet them all at once but the important thing is both children are still being seen as we move through those moments and that whole thing that comes back to again.

A need can be acknowledged without immediately being met and that in that we are still remaining connected. Now obviously I've given you some examples of what I would say. I think it's important to say these aren't scripts. It's not about going you should say these exact words it's about helping people understand the concept so that they can apply it in a way that's true to them.

Also let's put it out there again cause I've said this before if you're doing this for the first time cause I'm sure someone's going, "Oh how? You make that sound easy," but if you're doing this for the first time it's new, it feels clunky, it feels awkward and that's okay. You're not gonna get it perfect overnight but with awareness that helps us to grow and get better with time.

MELODY:
I like what you said like in the example, it's about having that constant narration, conversation like I guess you're not having a conversation with the kid because if the kid's so distraught they're not talking back but at least you're just yeah, having that kind of narration and being verbally, audibly like, heard and saying that, "Yes, I'm doing this, I'm coming, I'm just needing to do this, I know how you feel, I am coming."

DOCTOR TASH:
Yup and look, actually with babies even if they're not upset it's a really, really, really valuable thing to do and it's one of the things that builds their language. Like I remember when my first was quite young people looking at me like I was crazy walking through the supermarket cause I'd be telling my infant, nonverbal infant, what I'm doing. They understand a lot earlier than they will ever respond and I think sometimes we underestimate how much they understand but even when they don't understand words, they understand tone and that's the same for bigger kids too. The tone matters and so how we deliver that message we can really show them I'm still holding you emotionally, I'm still connected, I'm still holding you, I'm still present just by what we're sharing with them while we're doing stuff without having touched them. Not because we're going "I'm neglecting you" but "I can't get to you right now. I'm stuck but I'm still telling you I hear you, you're seen ,your need is valid and I will get to you as soon as I can."

MELODY:
So many questions right now and I'm trying to decide which one to go first. I'm gonna stick with the scenario ones again right so I'm starting to get the picture here. It's like you know, you're constantly having that connection, talking to them or if you're realising that they have a different, they have a need that you cannot meet, you could potentially offer an alternative in which you could meet that need and help what you're wanting to do as well but then so this is the scenario I'm thinking.

Three children of different ages all crying at the same time. How are you gonna and then yes, you are triaging it and going okay, this one has a more immediate need so you need to go to this one and you're talking to the other two but then you know, how you gonna do that without making you feel like you're letting the other two go, "Oh, so the other one is more important than me"?

DOCTOR TASH:
I reckon that there are parents listening who physically felt that in their body when you asked that question. These are one of those parenting moments, if you know what I mean, where it doesn't rain, it pours and let's be honest. If you're anything like me, in this moment your nervous system is pretty overwhelmed.

First, touching on things we've discussed before remember that repair matters more than the rupture and I say that because the last time I was in this very situation I definitely needed a moment to pause after a rupture to sort myself out before I was ready to address anybody and that is so important to acknowledge because sometimes and these sort of scenarios, I am sure I'm not the only one whose nervous system is on like fire alarm alerts and you can't really help anyone when you're in that state and so sometimes, before we can respond to our children we actually need to take a moment to regulate ourselves.

In that moment that need is actually the highest priority and when this happens I also find it really helpful to remind myself of my limits in my own self-talk and I mean that in the setting I will actually say to myself, "I am one person and I can only be in one place at one time and that is okay. We are safe, everyone will be okay," and as I said, this happened to me recently and in that moment, in the little calm I was able to muster up I'm pretty sure that I sighed and started with a statement that addressed all the kids at once and I think it was something like, "I know it is really hard right now I understand we are all having a whole lot of feelings right now and it's hard. Mummy is here, I understand and I am here and then I went through and I individually addressed each child starting with my eldest who was the most distressed and had been the trigger to set the others off and then the middle and then I actually finished with the baby who was only about five months at the time and a part of that triaging was which child really has the greatest need at this time and it was the one that was the most distressed who would technically trigger the others off. The others were responding to the the eldest's distress, if that makes sense and now the reality, like remember the reality is it's just not possible to meet all these needs at the same time and in these moments perfection is definitely not the goal. It's just to try and get calm enough if possible or some calm enough to be able to triage and make some sort of safety net around your kids.

The other thing is just cause you've said that doesn't mean that every suddenly goes quiet and everyone's like, "I feel great Mum." They were not happy for a while but it was actually amazing the difference it made in me if I reflect to how I was before cause when I ruptured I clearly triggered the situation to get worse not better.

So my first response escalated the scenario and then when I took the pause and managed to breathe through like breathe through, calm myself down to find enough calm and just be steady, that helped in time to calm the situation down. In time, really important. It took time. It doesn't happen straight away and it doesn't, that's okay. It's actually okay for our kids not to feel happy all the time. What's more important is they know that they're being held in that, like if it goes back to like I think our fourth episode talking about being with someone, being with our children through those difficult feelings, this is what we're talking about.

It's "I'm with you through it, not trying to fix it, I'm just with you through this journey as you experience and process all the big, good, bad and ugly feelings related to this moment". They're not and they know in that, that they're not alone, they're not being ignored cause you're holding them and acknowledge them in your words and in that you're not gonna be able to necessarily hug all three kids at the same time sometimes you can hug two occasionally you can hug three but if they're anything like mine they're pushing each other off cause they each only want one mummy cuddle so you do the best you can but you can hold them all with your words.

Every single one of them can be simultaneously held with the words because you move between depending on who's needing to be who. If one's getting physically held you're acknowledging the other like it's constantly a moving game if that makes sense. Yeah, it's not your job to fix the chaos of that moment but to let them know that they're still safe in the chaos and that you are there with them.

MELODY:
I know you said it before but you know it sounds like when you say all of this right and then everyone is gonna calm down and everyone's gonna understand and yeah and you said that no, it's not going to but then so is this is it normal then?

So when you're holding them with your words and everything else but you know, you still I guess maybe instead of dealing with the crying of whatever it is that they're facing now you're dealing with crying with disappointment, crying with frustration, it's like, "You're not coming still!" Is it normal?

DOCTOR TASH:
Yes, yeah, it's a great question and I'm sure that there are others that wondering the same. Yes, disappointment and frustration are completely normal. Let's be honest we experience those same emotions in our relationships too and we cannot prevent our child from feeling disappointment sometimes but what we can try to do is be with them in that disappointment and so when it comes to examples like the soccer one like or with younger kids where it's like, "Pick me up, cuddle me, play with me," those are all often the cries for connection and so it helps to pause and think of what's the request really happening underneath because it's usually not the activity it's usually I need you, I want the connection with you and so in those moments if we respond too literally to the request we can accidentally actually miss the need that's underneath if that makes sense?

MELODY:
Yup, so yeah so it's really trying to figure out you wanting to play with me isn't because you well literally want to play with me. You want to play with me because you just want to have, spend some time and connect with me.

DOCTOR TASH:
Well often they do literally want to play soccer too but the number one thing is "I want the connection". Often, especially with little kids. As they're getting older it might be I actually really need a second person to play this game, I would like you to do this with me and so maybe that need changes with time but usually there is a connection component to it. Play with, do with me, watch this with me is a request to spend time with me. It's a request for quality time.

MELODY:
Even like with the three like the three kids crying at the same time as well right, in your scenario, what's underneath is not that they all well, I mean they all have a need but the other two, the needs from the other two is simply because it's, I guess empathy from what the first one is having.

DOCTOR TASH:
Everyone's dysregulated. They dysregulated for a different reason, their nervous system is out of sorts and their greatest need at this moment is actually to come back to calm and they're looking to you to help them do that, by trying to be a calm, to sort of regulate from, if that makes sense but it's yeah, how you can be with them through that and it's just yeah, I think it's coming back to that it's not our role to fix it. We don't need to fix it, we just need to journey through it with them.

MELODY:
So I'm sure there are many, many other scenarios out there. I cannot think of all of them so what I want to say is that if you, if anyone's listening and they do have a burning question about a certain scenario, don't hesitate to comment or email them through at Hello@MumsAtTheTable.com and we will try to get to them.

I wanna move on a little bit now which is a little bit talking about this whole frustration and disappointment which you talk about in the article as well which is this concept of frustration tolerance. Talk me through about what's happening developmentally when we allow children to sit in you know, these small disappointments.

DOCTOR TASH:
So I'll talk about frustration tolerance in a second before I do that I wanna say a comment about disappointment and that is, our job is not to stop our children from ever feeling disappointment but it's to make sure that they don't feel alone in their disappointment and that's the sort of key difference. Sorry just a thought.

So frustration tolerance. When children experience small disappointments whilst they're being emotionally supported they're actually building an important developmental skill, frustration tolerance. Which is the ability to manage emotions and behaviours when things don't go the way they want and so in the early years children don't yet have that internal ability to regulate big feelings on their own. Their nervous system is still developing and let's be honest anyone who has ever parented or cared for a toddler will have seen how quickly frustration can overwhelm them so when frustration happens and a parent stays emotionally present with them the child is essentially borrowing the parent's calm or regulation or emotional state and whatever it might be while their own brain learns how to manage or respond to that feeling which is co-regulation.

This is co-regulation and so over time it's these kinds of experiences that help children gradually develop their own ability to regulate. They learn that uncomfortable feelings can be tolerated and that distress comes and goes and that the relationship remains even through that distress and so these small disappointments are actually really important experiences for kids because they discover that even when something feels frustrating they're not alone in it because their parent's gonna be there with them through it and so that's sort of the grounds of frustration tolerance and the next time you can tolerate a little bit more and a little bit more and a little bit more. Key thing being it's a little bit, it's not big jumps.

MELODY:
It's, you know, when you say all this I am imagining well, I'm actually remembering the most perfect example of frustration tolerance that's building in my son is when we're trying to get him to practise his piano and every time he learns a new piece he doesn't know how to play it and it's a "I wanna give up piano, I don't know how to play this, piano is so hard, this is terrible" and so suddenly you hear, hearing you say this is just like, well, yeah, the frustration, I tell you, the feelings in me when he has that is just like, oh my goodness why do we have to go through this all the time but then now that you're saying this yes, I can see it because you know, the pieces get harder right and so actually his tolerance is actually stretching whenever he learns and has that piano because yeah, it's actually making it easier for him to tolerate the difficulty level of whatever that he's learning.

Yet at the same time the thing that I struggle with is the whole, like you know, I'm trying to build up his frustration tolerance as thinking that oh, I'm trying to build him up so that he doesn't give up easily that was what I'm seeing it as but how much of it is that and then how much of it is just me forcing him to be independent in that sense?

DOCTOR TASH:
Yeah, okay. It is really important to sort of try and find it. It's a really fine line and it's a bit of a sort of testing. The main thing is building frustration tolerance does not mean that children are being left to cope alone with big feelings. They stay emotionally connected whilst they experience those feelings and we're responding to them in a way that's attuned to their emotional state and that means it varies.

There's not a single response because it varies on the child, it varies on the day of the week and how they're feeling and what else might have been going on because everyone's tolerance level of like, will vary depending on like, you know, I'm having a bad day frustrations gonna come much easier and actually ability has dropped with it whereas on a good day you might be able to tolerate a whole lot more and so it's really important to stay attuned to the child in that moment so if the child's really getting upset and frustrated with it and the parent's ignoring dismissing or pushing through then and responding in a way that doesn't necessarily match that emotional state that doesn't actually help them build tolerance it leaves them to sort of manage something they don't really feel ready to handle on their own and so a lot of it's about trying to gauge the child and then respond to the child in that way whereas if you're the parent, acknowledging the feeling and staying emotionally present.

Even if the situation doesn't change the child feels supported through the experience and so the difference isn't whether frustration happens frustration will happen in life the difference is whether the child feels alone in that frustration or that they are adequately supported through the frustration and I think that sometimes this is much easier to understand in terms of physical tasks and feelings and so I'll give you a recent example that I've had with my own child.

So I was with my two-year-old at gymnastics which he's only recently started and he jumped into the foam pit and was really struggling to climb out and he got frustrated and yelled out for me and I had actually already jumped in so I was quite close to him in this pit and he was clearly frustrated at this point in time and if he'd stayed that level of frustration it was definitely a moment where I just needed to rescue him but it was on the cusp.

It was, do I need to rescue him or or is this a tolerable frustration moment and so I decided instead of rescuing him straight away I wanted to see is it a tolerable frustration moment and so I said to him, "It's so hard isn't it?" and then I started to climb out myself next to him making these exaggerated, struggling sounds as I clambered like, over the like, the foam going, "Oh it's hard, Mummy's working really, really hard," and he started laughing at me struggling and then he began copying me saying he was working hard, really, really hard and eventually we both reached the edge and he managed to climb out of the pit without my help.

Now throughout that whole time he had some little moments of frustration but it was the type of frustration you get when you're pushing yourself to do something hard not the type of frustration that you feel when you're completely defeated and unable to continue or going, you know, the image that comes to mind is toddlers going, "I can't, I just can't do it, I can't do it," and they're crying and they're getting upset and the parent's going, "You can do it, you can do it, I know you can do it." That's actually a moment where the child actually needs us to step in and grab it for them if that makes sense.

They need us to believe them that actually I'm saying, "I can't do it" and I'm believed that I can't do it. That may or may not be true but when they're that level of sort of distress if you know what I mean, it's going "No, no, I'm gonna step in and believe you and emotionally carry you cause that's what you need more," and so that's what I was testing with my son.

Anyway, so next week he got frustrated again this time I wasn't in the pit but I acknowledged him again. "It's so hard, you're working really, really hard," and he, that was enough for him this time so he with that verbal confirmation was able to climb his way out of the pit and get out and then since then he's been able to do it. Doesn't mean that he doesn't need emotional support sometimes he needs some acknowledgement and validation and sometimes he doesn't and often he's repeating to himself as he was that second time, "Working hard, really, really hard," and so I was staying with him emotionally the whole time.

I was holding him emotionally both when I was physically climbing out with him but also the time I was seeing it from afar but I was watching where his frustration level was. Is this a manageable tolerable frustration that's like you know, yeah, let's push, let's try harder or was it a no, I really need you and if I hadn't had tested him going back to that first moment and he completely lost it crying in frustration, asking for help that would have told me this is not a tolerable frustration and at that point I would have needed to step in and just help him out cause in that moment if I'd stayed going, "You can do it, I know you can, come on buddy, Mummy's here, you can do it," while he's totally overwhelmed and asking for help that's no longer emotionally supportive frustration it actually can leave him feeling alone in that struggle and so the distinction between are we building frustration tolerance versus are we pushing them a little bit into forced independence is, is the child still feeling emotionally held in this experience if that makes sense.

MELODY:
Totally because I can see it back in the piano example again as well it's the whole yeah, it's really just need to watch them carefully and read how they're reacting because there are cases when my son learns the piano piece right and it's just like yes, it's hard, can you just push through it but there has been instances when you just said, that it just reminded me there has been instances in which when he has actually played the piece, can't do it and has actually completely lost it, like fully distraught and just completely defeated and so I guess yeah, it's, the whole difference there in trying to watch them and saying, is this something that you should just keep practising on like for in the instance of piano, should you keep practising this piece or is it time to just you know, let's just forget about this and let's just talk to your piano teacher and say, this is just too hard right now let's try a different piece.

DOCTOR TASH:
I mean like even with that sometimes it comes day-to-day as well so it's about watching, being emotionally attuned to the change if that makes sense and knowing your own child and knowing like you know, at this moment like you said, it's I'm defeated, I need help whereas other times it's like no, it, this is annoying me, it's frustrating me but I can do it, I wanna push through and here's that difference as you said and so it's just and it's realising that that is fluctuant, it's not fixed, it changes and so being able to watch and monitor where the child is and at any point, where we at one moment, we might be encouraging them because they're in a tolerable frustration moment and then next second they flip into actually, no, I'm now distraught you need to rescue me and so it's being able to respond to that change and recognise when it's done that, which and that's what emotional attunement is.

MELODY:
So it's, I'm just trying to think about like you know, in terms of summing up the actions of what we do right, so it's like, not having to meet every need is okay because then it helps them to build well, you know, the resilience, the frustration tolerance but it's not, but yet at the same time when you're not meeting that need, it's still trying to be there emotionally for them not just throw them to the wolves so to speak, but yet at the same time being ever watchful, so it's more or less like just standing on the sidelines but watching them carefully to make sure that they can do it and if not, being able to tell the difference of when you can actually step in.

DOCTOR TASH:
Yes and there are some times where your priorities might change so you've triaged originally like you know, use the my baby crying illustration. I said baby's grizzling, toddler's doing his activity, all of a sudden, cause anyone who's had a baby knows they can do this, now baby is screaming bloody murder, who knows what happened but they are distraught like you know, the world has ended, everyone feels like they're dying sort of cry.

That baby needs you right there, right now, that baby needs me right now, doesn't matter what the toddler was doing, doesn't matter if I'm halfway through connecting something the baby needs me now because it's changed does that make sense, like that level of urgency has suddenly escalated that baby is really distressed and distraught and needs me and same like you know, obviously like with the children crying they can all be in that moment at the same time as well and in those settings you can still only be in one place at one time so don't get me wrong there are times where even in that you can't meet every need at that moment and so that's still okay but it's more talking about how you triage.

It's being emotionally attuned so being in tune to where is the emotional state. Is this frustration tolerance? Is it am I pushing them too hard? Like do they really need me right now and also what I'm doing? Am I really stuck in whatever I'm doing or could I put it down for a second and move and that's all labile, it's all moving, it's moving parts and it's constantly watching and responding to the situation and the circumstances around us.

MELODY:
It sounds, okay, it doesn't sound easy but you know, it sounds easier when you are someone who is kind of exposed and more used to this whole emotional attunement thing. I want to acknowledge the fact that you know, a lot of us don't grow up in haven't grown up in that environment.

With previous conversations with you it's also made me realise just how much that was kind of lacking in my childhood. I wanna talk about for people like this right, where you know, needs have been ignored, they haven't been acknowledged but we wanna do better, we wanna do it different for our children right?

DOCTOR TASH:
Yup.

MELODY:
Where do we start?

DOCTOR TASH:
Yup so if you grew up in an environment where your emotions were ignored or dismissed then one thing that's important to realise is moments like these can actually feel really uncomfortable. When our children are crying or asking for something and we can't respond immediately it can actually bring a lot up for us internally and that's really important to be aware of and actually it's something that a lot of people really need to work through as well.

Sometimes that discomfort can come from a belief that we've learned growing up that you know, how quickly needs to be responded to and that might be the idea of a good parent. Like a good parent must respond immediately or maybe that even they're dismissed and if all of those are the case it's actually a fundamental mindset shift which is hard and so we're trying to reteach ourselves and learning that the need can be acknowledged even though it can't be met because I'm still being emotionally responsive to my child. So it, the first part is actually realising that.

I know that sounds simple but it actually is really hard. It's really hard to truly realise that because we can go, oh that sounds good but then inside it's like, nope I still gotta respond immediately, still can't tolerate the cry, still gotta go cause if we didn't experience that ourselves it one, it's super unfamiliar and as we said, it you know, we said before it's hard doing new things and so part of that work is practising how to acknowledge in those moments so even when we can't act on it straight away being able to go okay, let's just start by trying to acknowledge it and just show the child that they're seen and we're gonna fumble over our words if we've never done this before we're gonna maybe not really know what to say and that's okay because like any new skill, like we said before it's clunky and I love the analogy of the infant learning to walk because when you're learning something new it's a wobble, fall many, many, many, many times before it starts to feel natural but the infant eventually learns how to walk and this, the same applies here too.

So you don't have to get it perfect and I think that's actually probably one of the most important things for people to realise first is because often those same people have grown up in these environments are more likely to have a tendency towards perfection, towards I've got to get it right, I've got to do it this way, I've got to do or I'm gonna do better for my child, so I have to just do better, I might not know how to but I've just got to know.

We can't. We're learning skills and actually parenting is a skill like it's not something that, unless it's been modelled really well to us like what comes intuitively is what was modelled to us, anything else is actually really learning how to adapt to new change, adapt to differences and so number one is you don't have to do it perfectly.

It's okay even if you're just trying, fumble, go, "Gee this is hard, that's okay, that's okay." You're the infant learning to walk, you've never done it before. I've never seen a baby walk who's never tried before for the first time, they fall every single time so they actually fail a truckload before they succeed at walking but they get there eventually and so what matters more is that we're just showing up, we repair when we need and we're showing our kids that you know what, perfection isn't the goal but I'm gonna try and show you that you're seen and then some moments, you'll be like I didn't respond, I just stood there and watched and it, show grace and compassion in that moment.

If your feelings were responded to in that way then that is your natural first response and so when you're trying to change that you're gonna go back to that at times and that's okay. Like you are not going to be perfect straight away. You're never gonna be perfect, heck, I know this and I still don't get it perfect and that's the whole point. We're just trying to we're on a growth journey and parenting isn't and especially understanding this side of things is as much or more a growth journey for us sometimes than it is for kids and also saying to all of that if someone finds these moments really overwhelming it is absolutely okay and actually really important to seek support. Talking to a GP or another professional can be incredibly helpful when we're trying to learn new ways of responding to really challenging parenting moments.

MELODY:
You know what? I found that talking to you has already helped me cause the reality is that whenever my child has big feelings immediately I feel a lot of anger, a lot of frustration and I used to react immediately. I have my own outburst. Now after all these conversations that we've been having yeah it's what you say, it's a mindset shift. It's, so I recognise it now and I just tell myself it's just a matter of telling myself, "Oh emotional regulation time, practise time."

DOCTOR TASH:
Yup.

MELODY:
And that actually surprisingly helps. Just knowing that oh, it's time to practise.

DOCTOR TASH:
It's amazing how much of a difference it can make when we do it with compassion. Self-compassion. We're not expecting perfection straight away. When we expect perfection it all becomes too hard and we can't do it whereas if we go, it's okay, I'm gonna fall, I'm the infant learning to walk and it's just like okay, that's alright like, you know, the moment I had my three kids yelling and I lost it I had to have that moment to myself. Like I totally escalated the situation with my rupture and I had to actually genuinely pause, do the self-talk, which is actually so much more powerful than people realise, what we can, what we say to ourselves in those moments and in that, find enough calm to be able to come back to the situation.

MELODY:
I should have mentioned as well the other thing that I say when it's practise time right is like, the other thing that I do tell myself at the back of my head is like, it's practice time and if you stuff it up there is always repair time.

DOCTOR TASH:
Absolutely, I love that.

MELODY:
So well, it is time to wrap up our conversation and you know, I wish we could keep talking because it's been so amazing to hear your thoughts so but before we go, what's your one takeaway?

DOCTOR TASH:
Yeah if I had to leave parents with one thought today I think it would be this. Parenting inevitably means navigating competing needs and it simply is not possible to meet every need immediately and that is okay. What matters most is that our children still feel seen in those moments and when we acknowledge the need the connection can remain even while they wait and over time it's that experience of being seen and acknowledged that builds a child's sense of safety and secure attachment.

MELODY:
There we have it. We don't have to meet every need to be a safe parent we just need to make sure that they are seen and hold them emotionally. If today's episode resonated with you I really encourage you to read Doctor Tash's full article on the Mums At The Table website. It goes even deeper into this idea and if this episode has helped you please subscribe, leave a review or share it with another mum who might need the reminder. You're doing better than you think.