Building resilience through struggling

MELODY:
Stop, let me do it for you. Is that what you say when you witness your child struggling? Yeah, me too. We think we're being helpful, we think we're being kind but what if every time we "save" our kids from a small frustration we're actually stealing a piece of their future resilience? Today Doctor Tash and I are getting into the foam pit to talk about why our children struggling is actually a gift.

Welcome back to Mum to Mum with Doctor Tash a Mums At The Table podcast. I'm Melody and I'm here with Doctor Tash. Hi Doctor Tash.

DOCTOR TASH:
Good morning Melody, how are you?

MELODY:
Good morning. I'm doing great and I hope you are too.

DOCTOR TASH:
Yes.

MELODY:
So we're gonna get straight into it. We're gonna talk about the article that's on our website. Your son in a gymnastic foam pit. He's two years old, he's stuck, he's asking for help. Instead of rescuing him you simply say, "It's hard, isn't it?" I had to laugh a bit about that.

DOCTOR TASH:
Yes, I did. However context matters. First of all we're at gymnastics. In the few weeks preceding this I'd helped him out of the pit. I'd physically got, I helped him out when he would needed to get out but this time I'd jumped into the pit and so I am in the middle of the pit as well. A bit away from him but in the middle of the pit so rescuing wasn't quite gonna be as easy as just, "Okay I'll just pull you out and assist you with this," and so the reality was that the circumstances around me had put me in a position where I knew I needed to support him in a slightly more hands-off way in that moment and so I wanted to see where was he at. What level of support did he actually need from me?

And at the time he was a little frustrated his attempts to move hadn't really gotten him anywhere
and it's important to recognise though he wasn't distraught. He'd been trying on his own it wasn't working and so when he exclaimed, "Mama, help me," he was reaching out for my support but the question was what support did he need?

MELODY:
What do you mean by what support?

DOCTOR TASH:
Did he need me to physically rescue him or did he need me to do it with him or did he simply need some encouragement and reassurance that what he was experiencing was hard? And so for me what I was trying to work out in that moment was whether this was still a manageable struggle for him or whether he needed me to step in more actively.

MELODY:
It sounds a bit like you're separating the kind of support like you know you were asking me what kind of support and I was like, "I don't know what you're talking about?" but it sounds to me like you're separating the support into physical support and emotional support.

DOCTOR TASH:
Yes, however I would caveat that in the setting that any request for help is requesting emotional support. So we always need emotional support.

Take an example of our own like when we ask someone for help if they acknowledge you know, it's difficult, I'm sorry I can't help you at the moment that leaves us feeling in one way we're still with them, that we haven't been left alone if that makes sense?

MELODY:
Yeah.

DOCTOR TASH:
Whereas if someone when we ask them for help turns around, just goes, "No," and walks off that leaves a feeling inside which is like, "Oh." It's quite jarring emotionally.

MELODY:
Yup.

DOCTOR TASH:
To receive and so any request for assistance is always a request for emotional acknowledgement, it's always a request for some emotional connection, it's always a request for presence, always requesting connection.

What you're trying to determine is, is it just, "I need to know you're with me because this is really hard and I just need to know I'm not doing it alone," or do they actually physically need you to step in either entirely or somewhat does that make sense?

MELODY:
Yeah that makes sense. So yeah it's always, so it's about trying to gauge, okay, knowing it's always emotional support and then trying to gauge is that on top of needing physical support as well. That's an interesting perspective.

DOCTOR TASH:
So emotional always necessary, in addition, do you need my physical assistance in this task or is all you need the emotional acknowledgement that you're not alone?

And so if you take my son's example again, what did I do? So I acknowledged and then I mirrored it and so I'm in the middle of the pit and so I've turned around and I've just gone, "I know, it's so hard isn't it?" and then I've thrown my arms out on the foam that was next to me, "Okay, let's do it together."

So we're a distance away from each other but I've just decided to start demonstrating me climbing out of the pit now and I was totally over the top. It was, "Ah, ah, it's hard! Mummy's working hard, so, so hard, really, really hard!" and he'd laughed and then he'd started copying me, "Working hard, really, really hard!" and he'd had his little moments of grunts and his little bursts of frustrations as he worked his way over the bigger foam bits but we got to the edge and he climbed out on his own and I never touched him in that but he knew he was not alone in that interaction. He'd seen that yes, "Someone else is finding this difficult too it's not just me, this is hard, it's not just that it's too much for me the situation is hard and I can see someone else struggling and struggling through this. Okay sure, I can struggle through this too," and so that had been enough to sort of know that I'm not alone, I can do this with someone, I'm not just trying to do it, there's support with me and that had been all he needed in that moment and so I think the key thing to focus on in the example is not the fact that my son succeeded in getting out of the pit, that is not the point, it's to recognise that not all struggle is bad and some struggle is actually where learning happens when we feel emotionally safe.

So this was within his frustration tolerance and within the setting of emotional safety so therefore it was a safe struggle and this is where resilience begins to grow.

MELODY:
I like the whole you know, he knows that he's your, he's with you and that he's with someone and that's why he can do it.

DOCTOR TASH:
I'm not alone in this.

MELODY:
Yes.

DOCTOR TASH:
That's the internal talk. I'm not alone in my struggle and so now my struggle doesn't feel quite as big as it did when I called out for help.

MELODY:
Yeah and well, I've got a question about this whole safe-struggle zone but before that I wanted to check with you because what you're saying kind of reminded me of an episode in Bluey but yet not really so I wanted to check what you thought about that because see this is the episode, this is where Bluey is trying to ride a bike right and she's struggling, she's frustrated, she complains to Bandit, her dad, about how it's hard so it's the same thing. She's like, "It's too hard, I'm never gonna ride a bike again," but what Bandit does is he doesn't get on the bike and starts riding it with her he just tells her to observe all the other kids struggling with all the various things.

So I think one of them was trying to drink from a bubbler, another one was trying to hang onto the monkey bars or get onto the monkey bars, the other one was just trying to put on a backpack and all this while, no adult steps in, Bandit is simply watching as well. All the kids fail, they get frustrated, they get back and they try again and in the end they all succeed.

The episode ends with Bluey putting on her helmet and trying to ride the bike again so there's no adult involvement but yet, you know, the kids succeed and the kid get on. What's your take on that?

DOCTOR TASH:
Yeah, I love it. I mean it's demonstrating the same concept but it's doing it in a different way. So in my example I mirrored it to my son. I was the one that he saw struggling but in this example Bluey is still being shown you're not alone.

This is not, you're not struggling in isolation if you look around, other people are struggling too. The other kids are struggling, we're all struggling a little bit and trying and when we struggle, as we struggle a little bit more, we can succeed. Remembering and I haven't seen the episode but remembering that there is always a safe level of struggle.

There is a point that goes too far but when you're within that tolerance level of frustration tolerance or safe struggle, you can keep trying, keep trying and that's how we learn. Like if I think of an illustration with my daughter learning, she's learning to crawl at the moment and I remember the first time she learnt to roll and there was this point she was struggling, "Argh," you could hear it. She's like struggling to get this roll over and I thought I was gonna have to go rescue her, she'd gotten stuck and then next second, I'd have to wash my hands first so it took me a moment to get there and as I was on my way to get there she's rolled over and the joy on her face was like, "I did it!" but what was more apparent to me was I noticed that that was the day everything changed. From that moment rolling was no longer hard for her she'd learnt a new skill and that's how we learn our new skills.

If you think of us as adults, I was terrified of public speaking, terrified of the concept of speaking in front of other people, of being recorded. If you spoke to someone who knew me when I was in primary school there was still a point I did a talk when I was I think in Year 4 and then proceeded to collapse to the ground the second I'd finished speaking and be like, "Oh, I can't handle this," and if I said that to you today cause I do a bit of speaking at times and I do it quite easily, that didn't just happen. That happened through struggling, through being challenged a little bit beyond what's capable and you can't get there suddenly.

It's little bit by little bit, by little bit, by little bit. Each time we get challenged by something that's just a little bit beyond what we can do and we succeed, it gives us this confidence of going, "I can do this. Actually I can do this. Actually it's not that bad," and that's what Bluey was achieving. Like so I gave you an illustration where I mirrored it. In the Bluey-Bandit illustration it's being demonstrated that you're not alone in this still. There are others that are struggling with it too and that's not helpful when you turn around, you go, like, if someone's struggling it's like, you're not the only one struggling other people are struggling, like that, I don't see that. Whereas he doesn't say that he shows that and so she can see people struggling and when she can see people struggling a little, finding it hard and then succeeding that's going, "Oh, okay, maybe I can struggle in my struggle too. Like maybe I can get there too," does that make sense?

MELODY:
It sounds like the difference is the fact that they can see it. It's not just about, it's not like you know, this theoretical concept which is quite hard for children to grasp.

DOCTOR TASH:
Yup.

MELODY:
It's being able to, yeah.

DOCTOR TASH:
It's being able to tangibly understand that I'm not isolated and I'm not alone in this struggle this is not, oh my goodness what is wrong with me, why can't I do this? It's, oh okay, this is okay this is safe this is a part of learning if that makes sense.

MELODY:
Yes and you, yes it does but I do have a question because you mentioned a lot about this safe struggle zone right like you know, that it's because it's safe. How do you tell the difference? Are there any universal cues because you did mention that it's different for different kids as well.

DOCTOR TASH:
Yup. Okay so I think it's really important to acknowledge firstly they don't always have to succeed and that is like just cause they've tried it's not that they have to get to the point of success because when we do that sometimes they were okay to start and then they're no longer okay.

What they need us to do sometimes is to step in and help and sometimes they need us to step in and do it and that's okay. So in terms of answering your question this is not about pushing the child to breaking or to being totally overwhelmed and the challenge and the skill we're really trying to develop as parents is learning to recognise the difference between a child who's being stretched by a challenge and therefore learning and a child who's becoming overwhelmed by it and so when we say safe struggle the key thing is whether the challenge is still manageable for the child whilst they feel emotionally supported that's the key question. Do I still feel like you're emotionally with me in this?

Now in terms of universal cues obviously every child is different but there are some definitely some common signs that they are, they sort of stop trying altogether, become highly distressed or become totally emotionally overwhelmed that they're just not even able to make use of the support that you're offering.

So let's go back to my foam pit example for a second. Imagine I did exactly the same thing, "I know it's so hard isn't it? Okay let's do it together," and then I'm making the climb out and "it's hard, Mummy's working really, really hard," but instead of laughing and joining in he just loses it. He's screaming, "No, Mama, help me, help me," and he's lying in the same position looking helpless and defeated. That's no longer frustration, that's overwhelm and so in that moment when a child changes the response changes.

So within that as well if he'd been part way through climbing over and then a big boulder had overwhelmed him and then he just did the same, he was doing okay and then no longer okay and so when the child changes the response changes and a moment ago my role was to support him through the challenge but now my role is to help him feel safe again and so if that happened then it comes back to emotional safety first.

I would have climbed towards my son, picked him up, given him a cuddle and helped him settle down. Once someone's reached overwhelm you do not want to keep trying to push them through. That's not what they need at that point they need to feel emotionally safe again. Safe struggle is within the setting of emotional safety so if someone's no longer feeling emotionally safe it is no longer a safe struggle. It is a struggle that needs support, does that make sense?

MELODY:
Yeah.

DOCTOR TASH:
But yeah it might mean helping, the exact response isn't the key thing, it's, the key thing is staying in tune with the child so if we're attuned to them then we're watching and seeing when something changes because sometimes the mistake we make is we think, ah, this is what I was gonna do so I have to stick with it and that's not the case. You can change. It's fluid.

Sometimes our child needs encouragement, sometimes they need us to do it together and sometimes they need us to step in and do it for them and the skill we're trying to learn is to recognise that when the need changes how do I adjust my support accordingly?

MELODY:
Yeah because I think what you just said just kind of gave me a light bulb moment as well because you were, cause you were talking about how the goal isn't for them to succeed because like you know, I'm thinking, like oh, this is a situation, usually, this is how I approach it right, this is a situation where he needs to struggle and he needs to learn and so I see it through to the point of success in that sense but what you're saying is yes keep pushing him, keep pushing him but if it gets to the point where he no longer is able to do it and then switch. Just it's not about the success it's about being comfortable with the struggle to the point where yeah.

DOCTOR TASH:
Yup. And knowing when to go, no this is not the time to keep pushing. The goal is not success, the goal is to just see, the goal isn't even like, they don't even have to do anything more than they achieved the last time our goal is just to be able to be the support that when they are in a safe struggle, it's a learning struggle, we're not stepping in too soon but we're not stepping in too late.

So it's trying to be the emotional support so that they know they're not alone with it as they face that struggle to, like, either together or they're facing it with the support, coaching and you know cheering from the sidelines, "You can do it, yeah!" sort of thing like you know, imagining a footy game or something like that but no, absolutely, the mistake we sometimes make is we go, "You can do it, come on, keep going, you can do it!" and actually be very careful. Ask yourself first where are they emotionally like, are they emotionally safe and please remember we all make mistakes, having done it you know, it doesn't mean that we've gone and ruined our child.

If people are going, "Oh my goodness, I've definitely like pushed them past the safe struggle," that's okay. We're human. Now that we're aware, the next time we approach that same situation we're gonna have that awareness insight and we can start to learn how to tweak that and tailor it and learn from that, if that makes sense.

MELODY:
Actually leads into the next thing that I was having a question about is because like you know, I've done it before and it's like you know, sometimes you think, "Oh no, have I made my children feel like I've abandoned them? Like are they gonna have abandonment issues now?" What do you think?

DOCTOR TASH:
So I think it's probably one of the biggest fears that parents have and honestly it's one of the reasons sometimes we step in too quickly as well because it's like, oh I don't want them to feel abandoned so I've got to help you straight away. We love our kids, we don't want them to feel abandoned, we don't want them to feel unsupported or like we're not there for them when they're struggling but it's worth acknowledging that these moments are difficult because they also sometimes touch on our own experiences and so if we felt unsupported, if we felt dismissed or we felt abandoned then those feelings can surface when our child is struggling as well, which is a conversation for another day. A much bigger conversation for another day but there's an important distinction.

Children don't necessarily need us to remove every challenge in order to feel supported. What they need to know is that we're there with them. That being said, as you said before, we haven't always done it, that's okay. Remember the rupture-repair. Remember that 30% of the time is all we needed to get it right. We have made mistakes in the past, that's okay, we are not perfect parents. Every single one of us can look back at our parenting journey or our lives and go, "Ugh, not my finest moment," or "In hindsight, I probably shouldn't have done that."

There's no point shaming ourselves, there's no value in criticising ourselves in the past. All we can go is, "Okay, I did the best I could with the information I had at the time and the knowledge I had at that time and now I've got new knowledge, great let me test it, let me try but I'll still struggle at times. I'm not gonna get it perfect but it's how do I try and be more aware. How do I try and learn and grow." This is our growth, this is our struggle, this is our adult experience of what we're trying to support our kids through, of going, "Oh okay, this is new, this is foreign. How do I struggle with this thing? Oh look, it wasn't as hard as I thought it was, okay and I'll learn a bit more next time," if that makes sense.

MELODY:
Yeah, it does make sense but yet at the same time, you know, we still just, there's this feeling of guilt that we've done nothing for them.

DOCTOR TASH:
So a child is far less likely to feel abandoned when they know that you have seen their struggle,
you've acknowledged it and you've stayed emotionally connected to them through that struggle. That's the key sort of fundamental underlying point. It is natural as parents to feel guilty I think that it can help to remember we are supporting our kids, sometimes we're supporting, sometimes we need to rescue them but they're not the same thing and it's, there is a role for everything and it's just about staying in the moment of going, "How do we help you?" but to recognise also that we're human.

Like so, for the parent thinking, what if I got it wrong? Parenting is full of imperfect decisions made in real time, like hindsight is 20-20 but the reality is that you know, in that moment it's really hard and sometimes we help too quickly and sometimes we take too long to jump in. As I said before, 30% of the time is all that's needed to develop secure attachment so you don't need to worry that because you've made a mistake your child has suddenly got this lifelong problem. "That's okay, made a mistake. I'll learn from it for next time. I'm growing, I'm learning, I'm working through my own things as well."

MELODY:
I think that's an interesting, I just thought of this interesting reframe as well because you know, when our kids are struggling we want to help them and we think helping them is being there physically for them but you're saying the emotional connectedness is actually important as well and that actually can help them so you know, I think the reframe is that in times of when we want to help them, just staying emotionally connected is also helping them.

DOCTOR TASH:
Absolutely and that's why everything we talk about, everything I do comes from a baseline, the fundamental single thing is connection first. That's why the very first one we did was connect before you correct. Connect first. Connect before anything else because it is the single parenting tool that is better, more effective than anything else. Everything comes from relationship. Everything comes from connection. We were not made to be solo beings, we were made to live and function and work through relationship and through connection.

MELODY:
But obviously we're still learning right and we're still trying to figure all this out. Absolutely. So there is still gonna be that tension. I wanna know, do you have any tips you know, so we're having that tension, we're wanting to do the connection and not stepping into quickly. Do you have any tips or phrases or scripts that we can say to our children when they're struggling and also what do we tell ourselves?

DOCTOR TASH:
So I have to be honest and say that I'm not a big fan of scripts and phrases because sometimes we can become so focused on saying the right words that we forget the message we're actually trying to communicate in that and so I think it's important to recognise that there is no perfect script because the exact words matter far less than the meaning underneath them and so children are incredibly good at picking up when we're being genuinely present or when we're repeating a parenting phrase that we've heard somewhere and so the underlying message we're trying to communicate in that moment is, "I see that this is hard, you are not alone in it and I am right here with you," and so how you do that in words differs because the situation differs, the moment differs but the fundamental message you're trying to give them is, "I see it's hard, you're not alone, I'm here with you," if that makes sense.

Now, that delivery, personal. One, each parent and each child are different. The way you communicate is different. The moment's different. I wouldn't use the same phrase every time with my own child because the situation is different and so it's understanding what's the message I'm trying to give and then in this moment, how do I communicate that? Does that make sense?

MELODY:
Yeah.

DOCTOR TASH:
But that's the fundamental basis of them. As long as they get the message that the connection is still here, Mum, Dad is still here with me, I'm not alone. That's the message they're trying to get and we're trying to avoid accidentally communicating either extreme in terms of like, you know, you must have my help or my help has disappeared and it's gone.

So on one side, immediate rescuing a struggle in every single struggle before a child gets a chance to be challenged or leaving them alone in something they are no longer able to manage are the two extremes and so we're aiming for the middle ground where the child feels challenged but still supported and so that's that's the sort of dance we're doing.

Now, I think it's also important to say that the script we say to ourselves is sometimes what's more important than the script we say to our child and so it's reminding ourselves, I don't need to remove every struggle I just need to stay connected and pay attention like, my goal is, it's not my job to fix it, my job is to support them. What does my, what support does my child need right now? How do they stay emotionally safe? And the reminder to ourselves, to remember the response changes when the child changes. So it's, "I don't have to fix on, this was my goal. This is what I decided to do so this is the way we're going."

You can change. Change and adapt to the situation in front of you. The goal isn't to make a child endure something they're not ready for the goal is to stay attuned enough to recognise when they still need more support.
MELODY:
So if we drag it out a little bit more right, like, you know, I'm just thinking a lot of the examples that we're talking about is struggles that the little children have so it's a lot more like you know, gross motor skills kind of stuff and I'm thinking about how the concept can probably translate to older children and how it happens.

So a few things that I'm thinking about right, like just in terms of what my child is struggling with now, academics, doing well, being worried about his schoolwork, friendship, people, how do I make friends, my friends don't like me or I'm having troubles with my friendship. Most of it are issues that we cannot physically, actually, literally physically help them in that sense as well.

So you're talking about the connectedness and the emotional connectedness is it enough then to just say, "Yes, I know it's hard, I know you're worried about your school work, I know you're worried about your friendship, I'm here with you." Is that enough?

DOCTOR TASH:
Well, yes. In a sense in the setting that you know, think of our, think of ourselves as adults. So first, I'm gonna say, absolutely, this is not a concept that is the, this conversation is not about foam pits, gymnastics or toddlers. It's a conversation about how human beings learn and grow.

The principle stays the same throughout childhood, adolescence even adulthood. A teenager might not be trying to climb out of a foam pit, they're navigating friendship difficulties, they're sitting exams, they're learning to drive, they're applying for their first job or they're afraid they're gonna fail at something. The challenge changes but the process remains the same.

Growth happens when we're stretched just beyond our comfort zone but not so far that we're getting overwhelmed and so just like the younger kids needed the support to navigate this challenge, older kids and adults sometimes do too. Support just looks different. So for a teenager, for an adult there is so much power in listening. Listening, encouraging, problem-solving together or actually, not actually trying to fix anything
but simply being a safe place that they can come to that they feel heard.

The key thing is that someone doesn't feel alone in their struggle. When there's someone else to struggle with it it's no longer as big, so actually, there's a lot of, there's a reason that psychotherapy exists. There's a reason that psychologists, counselling exists and is so effective because the ability to sit there and talk through it with somebody else that's a safe place that acknowledges, that validates, that works through this experience with us is incredibly powerful and so when that hasn't happened through our entire lives we have to then go back and find a way of working through that or the absence of that, if that makes sense.

Whereas when we do this for our kids we are giving them the whole, that whole time that there's always a safe place to communicate with, there's always a safe place to work through my problems, I'm never alone in my issues and you see it when we become adults like, you know, people that are really struggle to let other people in because whenever they've had their cries for help, their seeks for, Mama, help me, it's been shut down or it's been pushed too far that they've never felt emotionally safe and so when we've been in repeated emotional unsafe situations through life we feel isolated and alone.

All our kids, all our adult kids are looking for, all our friends, all our partners, all we are looking for as human beings when we have a conversation with someone else is not like, you know, sometimes you hear, you start telling someone a story and the common phrase people often hear back is, "I just want you to listen. I'm not asking you to fix it," and that's a huge reflection of the fundamental thing that we go back to the very first point I made before.

Every cry for help, everything is emotional connection. It's to know that I'm emotionally safe in this relationship, that this person will hear me, that this person will listen to me and absolutely acknowledging to our kids, yeah, that was hard. Not trying to fix it. Don't try and fix the problem straight away when your kid comes to you and says, "Mum, I have no friends at school," don't say, "Oh, that's not true, I'm sure you do," because that just says, "What, you didn't hear me? Like I'm trying to tell you that I don't feel like I have friends at school." Doesn't matter if it's true or not it matters that they're feeling it and so in that moment if you turn to them and instead of saying, "No, you don't," or trying to correct it or trying to state fact even if what they've stated is not true, it's trying to say, "Tell me about it. What do you mean, like, what are you feeling?" cause until you can understand what they're feeling, you can't fix anything and sometimes it's not about fixing it, it's actually about understanding and working together so that they know that they're heard.

There is so much power in listening. There's so much power in being sincerely heard, seen, that is actually incredibly therapeutic so yes, you can do an incredible amount in supporting your adolescent without touching anything, without fixing anything, by simply being there, listening and acknowledging the reality of their situation. Key thing not what you believe their situation is but the reality of what they're feeling, the validation of their emotion.

MELODY:
That because, you know, I think as parents, because we think you know, we're the older ones, we're the wiser ones, we just wanna do something and we just wanna just physically like tangibly fix it for them and when we can't, we feel so helpless and and it's true, when I say I'm here for you, I understand how you're feeling, I feel like I'm not doing enough but I like the encouragement that you're saying that yes, it is enough because connecting with them and on the mental level which you cannot tangibly see is still fixing it for them in that sense.

DOCTOR TASH:
So I think it comes back to our experience as a kid. As kids, like when we've grown up, when we've always feel like something needs to be fixed or when we've never been in a situation where sitting in discomfort is normalised or modelled, it's really, really hard to do and that goes back to so many of the topics we've already talked about like of you know, like in a rupture-repair, power of being with and actually, something that we should talk about as well which is the idea of what's going on within us but there is an incredible amount of power in listening and so yes we'll talk about it another day but we can feel that discomfort of our own backgrounds coming up in those moments but it's being able to recognise and understand that no, actually all my goal is in this moment to communicate with my child is you're not alone in this. Yes, it's hard, I hear that this is hard for you, I'm still with you, I'm here. So that same message and that's why I said I don't like scripts because you miss the point. If you miss the underlying message, the key message in all of these situations is, "I get it. I hear you. This is hard for you right now. You're not alone. I'm here."

MELODY:
I know you've talked about it a little bit about this impact on a child who is always rescued quickly versus one who is allowed to struggle safely. Was there anything else that we missed in terms of long-term impact?

DOCTOR TASH:
I think that it's really just important to recognise that you're not talking about a single event so and you can't change the past. Even if it's been a pattern till this point you can change things ongoing just like therapy. That it is incredibly powerful from the moment you start listening.

There is no point that is too late. If someone is still alive and still breathing and there is still relationship there is no point that it's too late to work through these sort of things to listen, to validate someone, to show them that they're not alone. In rupture-repair we've talked about it there's no point that's too late either. You can apologise for what's been. You could, this is just as relevant to a 20-year-old. Sometimes you get adult parents of adult kids coming back many years later and apologising for things they've done in the past.

It is never too late. Yes, we all have done like, every parent is doing the best they can with the information they have at the time. Never forget that. This is never criticism of what our parents did or what we've done in the past this is just how we can try and learn and self-grow so that we are challenging ourselves safely to keep learning new skills as well. I think it's really, really, really important to go back to that.

I don't want people to focus on what long-term damage have I caused for my kids. Everything's changeable. The brain is neuroplastic meaning that it can learn, it can adapt when put in a safe environment and that is the power in why people as adults go back and do psychology inputs, counselling inputs. You're trying to reteach your brain safe ways of finding safety, emotional safety.

MELODY:
It's amazing. I really love this idea and I'm gonna have to sit on it a little bit more about
this struggle between you know, rescue versus struggle and resilience. It's really fascinating and sadly our time is short so last question, what's your key takeaway?

DOCTOR TASH:
If I had to leave you with one thought today it would be the idea of the concept that the goal is not to remove every challenge from our children's lives, to be comfortable with feeling uncomfortable and watching a little bit of struggle. Watching safe struggle.

Our goal is to help them learn as they face challenges that they may know they're never facing them alone that we are with them whether we're in the other room because they're actually really okay right now or whether we're here with them giving them the emotional support or whether we need to actually step in and do it that they know we will always be there for them when they need them.

That actually is what builds a child, the comfort. Like you know, people worry about kids clinging to them but the emotional safe child feels more secure to be able to walk away because they know that they can always come back and that safe place will be there.

MELODY:
That's amazing, yeah I think it's just about being able to sit with the idea, I need to do that as well, that our kids don't need us to be their rescuers but just their safe harbour, their anchor.

DOCTOR TASH:
As parents, our role is to stay connected, stay attuned and provide the level of support our child needs in that moment and as the child changes, the response changes. Sometimes they need encouragement, sometimes they need us to do it together, sometimes they need us to do it for them. The challenge remains, may remain, it may not, but the relationship remains too and that's where resilience grows. It's in this relationship I'm gonna learn this new skill, I'm gonna try this out.

MELODY:
Well, thank you for joining us for another episode of Mum to Mum with Doctor Tash. As always, if you have any thoughts, feedback or questions, comment here or email us at hello@MumsAtTheTable.com and don't forget to check out Doctor Tash's article on how we build resilience in our children on the Mums At The Table website. We'll see you next time.